Team meetings鈥攁s conducted by professional learning communities or data groups, for example鈥攈ave become an increasingly important component of teacher professional development in many schools. Yet some evidence suggests that such meetings are often not well-executed and that many teachers are not highly satisfied with the format.
To find out more about what makes school-based meetings work well鈥攁nd why they often don鈥檛鈥�澳门跑狗论坛 talked to Kathryn Parker Boudett, a lecturer on education at the Harvard Graduate School of Education and the co-author, with Elizabeth A. City, of Meeting Wise: Making the Most of Collaborative Time for Educators (Harvard Education Press, 2014). The interview has been edited for space and clarity.
You are known for your work on Data Wise, a book using assessment results to improve learning. Why did you feel that you needed to follow that with a book about meetings?
After we put Data Wise out into the world, we followed up with schools to see what was happening, and it seemed like some places were getting really strong traction with the model. But there were other schools where the process seemed to kind of fizzle. So we tried to push on that and figure out what was going on, and we saw in the schools that were making progress, there was a discipline and a culture not just around being collaborative but around using meeting time well. But in the places where teams just sort of got together and didn鈥檛 have a clear vision of how they were going to use every minute they had for this鈥攖hose folks were really struggling. The good news is that, as we worked with schools, we found that using meeting time better was a teachable skill. So we have a growth mindset around this aspect of the work as well.
Collaboration has become such a central part of teacher professional development in the last several years鈥攑articularly with the growth of professional learning communities and other teams. Why do you think that has happened?
I think there are two reasons. One is that the challenge we鈥檝e set for ourselves in education is more vast and difficult than what it used to be. Teaching has become more complex, and the idea that we now want to drive across-the-board improvement and consciously prepare all kids to be successful in life鈥攊t鈥檚 just a taller order than what we鈥檝e had in the past. And when problems get really big, they can become too difficult for any one person to solve on their own.
The other aspect is the idea that you will get better solutions if you put more minds on a problem. I actually wasn鈥檛 always quite sure about this myself, but I鈥檝e seen both personally and in the work we do in schools that it鈥檚 pretty true across the board. Getting other people鈥檚 ideas, especially perspectives from someone who鈥檚 going to bring to the data different assumptions and kind of jolt you a little into thinking in new ways of defining a problem or crafting a solution鈥攖hat really does make it easier to address important challenges.
In the book, you say that time for adult learning is being wasted in many schools鈥攁t a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars in some cases. How did you arrive at that figure?
It鈥檚 the idea of opportunity costs鈥攖here鈥檚 actually a worksheet in the book to help people figure that out. Districts have already invested in teachers鈥� salaries in their budgets each year鈥攕o that money has been spent. But how teachers use their hours devoted to the profession will determine whether the money was spent well.
So if you got five teachers in a room every Wednesday for an hour, and they end up talking about where they should go on their next field trip or about a student that鈥檚 driving them crazy and whether it鈥檚 the family鈥檚 fault鈥攕ome conversation that鈥檚 not really solution-oriented鈥攖hat鈥檚 effectively lost money. If nothing productive is happening in that period of time, then that hour of each teacher鈥檚 time is being wasted.
But let me be clear that this is not about blaming teachers who are involved in ineffective meetings. The teachers we talk to are usually the first ones to say, 鈥淥h my God, these meetings go on and on,鈥� or 鈥淚t鈥檚 a waste of my time,鈥� or 鈥淚t鈥檚 keeping me from the teaching that I love.鈥� We need to be listening to the people who are closest to the work鈥攁nd so often they tell us that in-school meetings aren鈥檛 working. And by the same token, teachers are often the most enthusiastic when they experience meetings that are well-run鈥攚here there鈥檚 a clear agenda and objectives, and all voices are being heard, and they鈥檙e taking notes to document decisions and tracking the time so that discussions don鈥檛 drag on.
What can schools and teachers themselves do to improve the impact of meetings or collaboration time? What would be first steps?
I think the first thing is to set expectations for what effective meetings are going to look like. And there are a number of ways you can do that. In the book, we have a meeting-agenda template, as well as a meeting-agenda checklist schools can use. The point is not to follow that particular template letter for letter, but to have a conversation and make a decision around what you think meetings are going to look like.
But that only gets you so far. We also think it鈥檚 important for people to experience or at least see an effective meeting so that they get a sense of that 鈥渁ha鈥� around what makes this kind of meeting different.
There are a number of ways to do that, too. For example, we have an on the Harvard edX platform鈥攊t鈥檚 free and self-paced, so I feel comfortable mentioning it. In the course, we include for each of the steps a little piece of a meeting in which our team is doing something relevant to that step. So if it鈥檚 Step Four where you dig into student data, we show people looking at a piece of student work, and you can see what a meeting around that looks like. The feedback we鈥檙e getting from people who鈥檝e taken that course is that鈥檚 really helpful to have those visuals, so they鈥檙e able to say 鈥淥h, that鈥檚 how they talk to one another,鈥� or 鈥淭hat鈥檚 the way they kind of call one another out if they鈥檙e missing a norm,鈥� or 鈥淭hat鈥檚 how they stay really evidence-based in their meetings and don鈥檛 get kind of off into judgmental conversations that would shut people down.鈥�
What would you say are the hallmarks of really good collaborative adult learning鈥攐f a PD meeting of this sort? What do you look for when you evaluate meetings in schools?
Actually, the first thing is seeing people on the edge of their chairs. I鈥檓 not sure if that鈥檚 something that鈥檚 quantifiable, but seeing people leaning into the conversation, really listening and excited is a good sign. You know, adult learning and student learning have a lot of similarities, and people learn best when they care about the outcome, when they really feel invested and excited about it. So in good school meetings, there needs to be that sense of 鈥渨e鈥檙e doing something really important here, and I want to be part of this.鈥�
Then there is the clarity of purpose鈥攖hat鈥檚 so huge. It should be clear to anyone sitting in on a meeting, even a stranger, what it is that the group is trying to get done. You also have a sense that the prep work has been done before the meeting. We鈥檝e all been to meetings where people are giving you login information or working you through a set of procedures. And you think, 鈥淲ow, there had to be a better way of getting this information across without having a meeting.鈥� So, in a good meeting, that stuff has been taken care of beforehand via email or whatever, and you have a sense of why it was important to bring this group of people together in real time at that moment.
Lastly, I鈥檇 look for good pacing and facilitation鈥攖hat the leader, with the help of the participants, is being really clear about how much time they think is going to be needed for objectives to be met and then adjusting in the moment if necessary. I want to see if there鈥檚 a skilled facilitator who has an eye on the meeting as it鈥檚 unfolding and is being really kind of metacognitive about what鈥檚 happening and whether they鈥檙e going off-track and whether that鈥檚 OK or not.
Oh, and having a designated note-taker, on a rotating basis, should not be underestimated as a factor in good meetings. When people get good at documenting their meetings, particularly in digital form, they begin to amass the evidence of the progress that they are making. Good meetings leave a virtual 鈥減aper trail鈥� that shows what really got done.
